Curse

Wolfs Shadow · Apr 10, 2008, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Please read (regardless of how long.) Before flaming my topic or post.

Before I write the non-ending "field" test I have done. I completely agree that Rank 3 players only want to be teamed up with rank3 players and so on up the Rank chart. However start remembering when you first started.Now to the fun filled facts we all already know, but are afraid to fully admit it. It is also no new news that HA isn't what it used to be. But I don't quite think you understand truly how bad it will be in the future.

I know this may be a hard concept to grasp, but its no joke. I just got back into Guild Wars few months back. The moment I went to America District 1 to play HA after a long time away, I actually checked my internet connection. No one was there not one person. I know a good majority go to international districts. I even checked those. The servers had two districts. 2! Remember when districts were actually full and you had to keep clicking to get in. No worries doesn't happen any longer.

Anyone who is new to the game may as well not play PvP at all. My friend actually asked me if he should get Guild Wars. (I guess he heard somewhere or read something that "claimed" Guild Wars was one of the best PvP games for those into RPG. Such silly rumors these days.) (Sarcasm people!). (He actually is really big into PvP anyways). I flat out said "no."" Save your money for Guild Wars 2 maybe.

You know something is messed up when there are more r9 players than rank1 or 2. (And I don't care if they pvp more or not). They may not have a title yet, but check the amount of players who do not have a title at all. Let alone a PvP title? Quick Question then, out of the 5 million "players" Guild Wars has. Exactly how many Player vs Player Heros Ascent? Do I really need to argue this?.

There should not be under any circumstances for a Rank 9 team to play a team under rank 3. Last time I checked, games should go from easy to hard not the other way around. It is almost impossible for a r1 to get fame.

I did test this. Posing as a r1 player for a day (lot of time on my hands I guess). I got two teams. We consist of henchies and heros. One guy on the team actually said to me, "that I was lucky enough to be with us because I was r1. I couldn't stop laughing. (So much for Player vs Player). However good news we did win one actually. I guess a player rage quit and they all resigned before they had any idea who they were playing.

The next team was PUG some random guy invited everyone in the district. (Good concept for any low level players actually still out there. You won't find a team otherwise.) We never won (surprised?)

ANET either needs to
A. Bring back 6 vs 6 HA
B. Actually do it like they do with Arena's in PvE. MAKE LIMITS!
C. Although not encouraged. Maybe, low levels should get a random arena and win fame? (Yeah I know I suggested it.) It would help them learn the concept and actually get interested in it. (However the "team" concept in this suggestion is thrown out the window.)

Low level should play low levels
High levels should play high levels.

There is a reason why one team holds HoH 3-5 consecutive rounds.

I know HA is meant to be hard, but is it supposed to be impossible? I applaud those low level players who stick around long enough to actually play, when the average build for a ranked player takes 20-30 minutes to set up (finding people, people of certain rank, then the build it self);then.... to play a 3-4 min match.

I found it funny how cocky some players have gotten too. Now here is a fun fact for those with big egos out there. Guess what the going price for a r9 account is? $400 to even a $1000. What is funnier is that people line up to pay it. I truly congratulate those of whom earned their rank. I really honestly do. It takes time and effort, I know. However be careful their may be a noob on your team and may not even know it

Stats during testing.
Fame: 1
Total time spent during waiting: 6 hours 33 minutes.
Total time playing actual matches: 17 minutes 31 seconds.
Number of teams: 2
Number of times being called a noob: 79 times (I was called it when i said
"low rank player LFG") or "R1 LFG Please"!) Yes I even said please. Still got laughed at and called a noob.

I was not kidding when I said I tested it. I probably even missed a few times I was called noob too.

There is one thing I will applaud ANET for though. The party search. It was a long time coming. So I thank you for that.

Now to get to my final conclusion. I will test this again to prove my point even farther. I will record it with Fraps or Gamecam or whatever people use. I will then post it on you tube.

Let me make this clear and perfectly clear. Guild wars was a great PvP game.

Alex the Great · Apr 10, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

guild wars has great pvp, but a crappy fan base in it

there is a difference!

Jenn · Apr 10, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

I can't help but feel like this post was written by none other than "Mr. Obvious." It's true, though. A lot less peopel are playing, and it seems like the "middle class" of HA has been cut out, because it's either emoteless teams forming, or r9+ teams forming.

Songbringer · Apr 10, 2008, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

I can't help but feel like this post was written by none other than "Mr. Obvious." It's true, though. A lot less peopel are playing, and it seems like the "middle class" of HA has been cut out, because it's either emoteless teams forming, or r9+ teams forming.

Because the orginal few 1000 who got all there r9-r12 have quit. The ones who are r9-r12 now(or most) are the ones who were low rank/not ranked back when all the good ha players quit. When all the high ranked players moved on to new games or quit gaming guild wars wasn't getting enough new players coming in to replace.

The ones who are high ranked now are the ones who wanted that. You know the guys who just fame farmed it through iway sway vimway hway every other way out there. The lower ranked players/not ranked now are the ones who were PvEing for the last 2 1/2 years who are now bored and want the title.However they try to do all the meta's/fotm's and get beat out by more experienced fotm's.

The quality of r10 balance to r10 balance 2 years ago is so ridiculous. Most of the skill has left HA. Now don't get me wrong those high ranked players aren't bad. AND I AM IN NO WAY SAYING OMG U IWAY U NOOB. I am just saying those high ranked players are not even a 1/4 as good as the high ranked players from 2 years ago

Jenn · Apr 10, 2008, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Songbringer

I am just saying those high ranked players are not even a 1/4 as good as the high ranked players from 2 years ago

I'll sign that.
A year and a half ago-ish, when I was HAing, I was actually learning things from my teammates in r9,r10+ groups. I was impressed by the talent around me, and every person brought something to the group because their fame was "earned." I felt like 1+ year ago, people went through a lot bigger learning curve to get better, and the overall knowledge had back then was more. Now, when I play in r9+ groups, I am wholly unimpressed, both by the behaviour of people who sound like their balls haven't dropped, and just by the lack of common sense & practical application people have.

Note: I still think there are a great bunch of players out there, but the number is few, and finding those people... well, far inbetween.

phan · Apr 10, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

I never bothered with HA ;

but we can make it like this

r1-r3 a team ;
r4-r6 a team
rx-rx a team

So there wont be any unbalancedness and high ppl don't farm the nubs and vice versa

Emperial Navarator · Apr 10, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

I got 64 fame, think 40 of them are from IWAY (when that was in ;-) ). I've tryed a few times lately getting a balanced team but... takes to much bloddy time getting nice party for low rank ppl, and then getting wupped and laughed at "noobs"... the team splits up and u gotta gather a new team.. Not fun!

English Warrior · Apr 10, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

great PvP shame HA'ers are arrogant and wont make it great by helping the lower generation.

Kaelyn the Dove · Apr 10, 2008, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeds

great PvP shame HA'ers are arrogant and wont make it great by helping the lower generation.

great PvP shame the lower generation are lazy and want ranked players to babysit them.

English Warrior · Apr 10, 2008, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaelyn the Dove

great PvP shame the lower generation are lazy and want ranked players to babysit them.

Dont need Babysitting just need a bit of help to start up then when they know the basics the HA will be great i play with friends now and again and its only high rankers u play because the higher rank look down and the new players which in all fairness is wrong because the new player may become a good player just needs something to help from the start.

blood seeker · Apr 10, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaelyn the Dove

great PvP shame the lower generation are lazy and want ranked players to babysit them.

let me just quote that so people realise it twice.

House Silvermoon · Apr 10, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Getting a higher rank is like climbing a mountain of glass shards on ur bare hands. it was not meant to be ez but it would be a lot easier if more people played, then it wouldnt take 6 hrs to get a grp...

JONO51 · Apr 10, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

I'll probably never really HA. It isnt worth it. The few times I have been there, its a case of wait 2hrs, get an invite, have a slow loader/rage quitter and the team dissappears in seconds.

fearfactory · Apr 10, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

One of my alliance members recently farmed from 0 fame all the way to bambi by utilizing the best thing you can use now in HA. Lie. Tell them you are r3+ or w/e and refuse to flash title. He was joining r9+ groups telling them he was 200 fame away from r10. They actually kicked a r11 guy from the group and left my alliance member because he was playing a lot better than the r11.

I myself did it too during the double HA weekend. My guildmate formed a r3+ group and had 2 of us (me with 0 fame and never been in HA before, and our alliance mate with 0 fame and never been in HA). We got our group together, pulled them on our vent, and played. Netted 6 fame out of the group before people had to go. Was probably a good 2 hours of going in and out of HA. And it wasn't that we were playing bad, it was just that we were facing teams that were better designed. (Hexway, Rspike, Legoway[I'm assuming that's what it was.. couldn't understand who was saying it.].)

If you can play in PvP and not get stressed under the pressure points, then you don't need a rank to keep you in a group. It does help to start with a fotm team just to get the feel of how HA is going to be. But, I would suggest you do RA, TA, Zeishan farm to unlock all the skills before going in so that if someone asks you to run a build, you can run it. Don't be afraid to ask for the skillbar too. More people would rather waste 2 minutes pinging you a skillbar and equipment template than 20-30 trying to find someone else who already had it.

My best help has been to pop on observer mode when I am bored or eating and not playing, and select one particular person in the game during the HA match, and just watch them. See how they use their skills, see if their weapon set changes (spear + shield drops for staff/wand+offhand). Just pay close attention until you feel you can do it too. Hell, if you have to, use one of the skillbars and go randomway (random invites to anyone in town. No purpose behind the builds, any accepted.)

It's sad seeing the same argument over and over on these forums. "How am I supposed to get r3+ when they won't let me in unless I am r3+?" There are people willing to let someone unranked into a group. Get to know some of these people. PM people asking for r3+ and tell them. "Hey, I'm only r1, but I know this build, I can run it. Give me a chance. If I suck, kick me, I'll understand."

kier · Apr 10, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

If you want help in pvp use obs mode. Dont expect higher ranked players to play with lower ranked players. Rank, if nothing else, is an indicator of how much time someone has put into pvp. Here are a few ways to improve your rank and thus get better groups:

1. Do not play with heros
2. Play more often
3. Use obs mode
4. Try to play with some of the same people everytime (add people to f-list)
5. Don't get upset (if you play heroway or some crap like that expect to be flamed)

For more info pm me on guru

TaCktiX · Apr 10, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

The thing killing top player interest in HA is Flavor of the Month builds. They're boring to face, annoying to kill, and require far too little effort to execute considering what you get out of it. So your R9's and such are getting bored of the same stupid SWay, IWAY, or related thing, and they leave. There went your expert basis.

How about the Rank 6 folks who have been doing balanced pretty much the entire time? They get a PUG together with a solid build that will go toe-to-toe with another balanced just fine. Bummer is, they didn't build for SWay and get rolled in UW or Fetid due to being unable to keep up with the pressure. After so much of that, people edit their builds to counter SWay. Then they face an R9+ group running a normal balanced, and they get rolled by not having a flexible enough build. R6's get tired of the push-pull of build wars and go inactive.

Meanwhile all the folks who have played FotM since they started HAing think it's the best thing since sliced bread. I find it totally ridiculous to see "R7+ Sway forming". No self-respecting balanced player would play SWay, so you know that it was diehard SWay people who got R7 from grinding out fame with that build. So your top-ranked players are becoming more and more skewed toward inexperienced, incapable people. Being able to do generic gimmicky pressure is not the same thing as being able to roll a balanced. So your midrange is shot for quality.

On the bottom end, Joe PvE rolls into HA for the first time. He's got Obsidian armor on his ele, can nuke anything on the planet, and wants to learn something new. Immediately he's presented with 3 choices: join a randomway (cuz they're the only thing that takes no-ranks and such), beg and plead with a ranked group to let him SH, snare, or the like (unlikely to be successful), or hit that Flavor of the Month build that takes no PvP-honed intelligence to run. The first will get Joe no fame, the second is unlikely to get him a group (no fame), and the third WILL get him fame. And since Joe thinks that fame is the same thing as skill and people will let him into their groups if he's r3+ or some-such, he goes FotM.

So the HA inactivity is caused by mindless gimmicks being allowed to run rampant. The top gets bored, the middle gets rolled, the SWayers gain rank but not skill, and the bottom is forced to do the only thing that can get them fame. Degenerate, disastrous cycle, and not the fault of the top ranks at all.

Kaelyn the Dove · Apr 10, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Ok, I’m gonna propose that this thread be closed since it is nothing more than another “higher ranks won’t take me into their group” cry fest.

It also reinforces my point that people complaining about rank discrimination are just lazy. If you are truly interested in getting into HA, follow Tiyuri’s tips laid out here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10105129

If you’re complaining about higher ranks not taking an interest in helping unranked players, look here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10272552

And hey, both links are available on the first page of the ha forum, one is even a sticky.

MisterT69 · Apr 10, 2008, 09:17 PM // 21:17

XD, I can't believe people still argue about the rank system in HA. I gave up on HA a long time ago, never turned back. I'm happy with my L33T armor and weps, thanks in part to PVE (Deep, UW, FoW, DoA). So let those r9+ HAers do their thing. Overcompensating maybe? PVE is so much friendlier, just slap on your r10 norn rank which takes a few days to complete, and put UB in your skill bar. Finding a group for any elite area with that build...a minute, or two, as compared to 6 hours you claim to have been waiting in HA. Most people got the point, and that's why HA is dying.

Kyp Jade · Apr 10, 2008, 09:36 PM // 21:36

The problem is grouping, plain and simple. And take heart, its not only at the lower ranks. I often have trouble finding competant people to play in my groups.

And please give the rank discrimination a rest. Please. Your idea of only allowing r0-3 to play with each other is not very well thoght out. IT actually amplifies the problem of grouping. Say your r3 (w00t), just get r4 (double woot). Crap, now you cant get any groups because no one in the r4-r6 bracket wants to take someone of your experience. your basically r0 all over again. (no woot)

If you want to fix the issue of grouping, HA needs more leaders. One group leader generally has 20-30 people he will play with on a consistant basis. Whats more is that groups form with people of roughly the same skill level. AND even more than that, as a player you really only improve when you play in teams at your skill level.

Problem is all of the low rank leaders that are willing to play, only play sway, because they have NO CLUE how to play balance. I've considered bringing along a player thats interested in leading low rank balanced for a few runs so he can see how balanced builds are handled vs mindless sway builds. I've even asked a friend to screen his pve friends for someone that does occasional HA and has the balls to lead groups. I dont think anything will come of it, since guild wars has turned into title wars, and the only thing people want is fame. I will probably end up getting someone who wants to be on my flist and play in my groups all the time to make fames. /yawn

Wolfs Shadow · Apr 10, 2008, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaelyn the Dove

Ok, I’m gonna propose that this thread be closed since it is nothing more than another “higher ranks won’t take me into their group” cry fest.

It also reinforces my point that people complaining about rank discrimination are just lazy. If you are truly interested in getting into HA, follow Tiyuri’s tips laid out here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10105129

If you’re complaining about higher ranks not taking an interest in helping unranked players, look here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10272552

And hey, both links are available on the first page of the ha forum, one is even a sticky.

Clearly You did not read what I wrote.

"Before I write the non-ending "field" test I have done. I completely agree that Rank 3 players only want to be teamed up with rank3 players and so on up the Rank chart. However start remembering when you first started.Now to the fun filled facts we all already know, but are afraid to fully admit it. It is also no new news that HA isn't what it used to be. But I don't quite think you understand truly how bad it will be in the future." FIRST PARAGRAPH. You couldn't manage to read that far.

I truly congratulate those of whom earned their rank. I really honestly do. It takes time and effort, I know.

Also another point right there.

Stop thinking I am complaining about high ranked people. They are simply playing the game the way it should be played. However for a game who cheers for their 5,000,000 players (which is impressive) should not have a lower number of HA than they did 2 years ago. Two new campaigns have come out even an expansion pack. The numbers in HA still falls. Who knows maybe the update allowing Taiwan players may make a difference. I doubt it. It is honestly players such as yourself that make me angry. I enjoy HA not for the "fame" or the rank but for the competition it is much more involved. I sit now for 4-10 minutes with a group with no one to play because no one has gotten to HoH yet. We sit in a "waiting room" A WAITING ROOM!

Now who remembers when there used to be 4 teams in one map? Old timers should. It was extremely fun. It took skill and lots of it.